Please remember that you must post your answer by TUESDAY night. Also please remember that you must post between 400 and 500 words. Some of you posted much less last week....since it was the first week, I will understand. But this week, please post the required number of words, and please answer ALL parts of the questions.
Choose ONE of the following 2 questions:
1) Think about the following 3 quotes from the novel:
a. "The brain is real; the mind isn't" (p. 52).
b. "Neither your disappointment nor your anger was caused by the rain" (p. 55).
c. "My mind is like a pond without ripples" (p.72).
How are these 3 quotes related? What does Socrates mean when he describes the brain as being different from the mind? Do you agree that they are different? Explain why or why not. In your daily life, do you use your brain or your mind--or both? In other words, does your mind have 'ripples'? Or are you more like Dan? Please explain your answer.
2) On p. 51, Socrates says, "Your mind is your predicament. It wants to be free of change, free of pain, free of obligations of life and death. But change is a law, and no amount of pretending will alter that reality." On p. 82, Socrates says, "The body is Consciousness; never born; never dies; only changes. The mind...is all that ends at death. And who needs it?" What is Socrates talking about in these two quotes, and how do they relate to the themes and ideas in the novel? Can you think of a situation in your life when your mind was your predicament? Please explain it in detail. How do most people in the world view death? How is the popular view of death different than Socrates' view?
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8 comments:
Paola
These three quotes are related by the meaning, that is that mind is a source of illusion, dictates your moods and brings you toward unhappiness. With the first one on p.52 Socrates says that the brain is something of physically real, it “can be a tool. It can recall phone numbers, solve math puzzles, or create poetry”(same page). So brain is working, instead mind always wanders: its thoughts arise without control (this is the meaning of the third sentence) and these thoughts are “the source of your moods”(p.56)(second quote). Brain is something that helps you everyday and in the precise moment you need it, instead mind is “like a tractor running wild”(p.53). Its memories and thoughts arise without your intent like the ripples in a pond where “someone has just dropped a boulder”(p.73).
Mind is the source of emotions and illusions too. According to Socrates, emotions “are your kneejerk responses to thoughts you can’t control”(p.53). This is why Dan becomes angry by the rain: there isn’t nothing to be really worried to, but Dan is hoping in a sunny day for their picnic and so the weather destroyes his illusion. Then Socrates says “mind creates both his disappointment and his joy”(p.57).
I agree with Socrates when he says that brain and mind are different and I understand what he means: my brain is working when my attention is focused on my action, like Dan in the gym (p.71), but when I am relaxed, suddenly my mind starts wandering. I am really amazed by the fact that Dan is able to write all his “cerebral fidgeting” and I’m not surprised that the following day he have need to buy a bigger notebook. I have never tried to do the same, but I think I couldn’t do it. Because my mind never stops: as soon my attention falls down as my thoughts goes away without control. And ever during my sleep my mind wanders: I think it is the source of my dreams (and Socrates too, p.66). I don’t think this is such a bad thing as Socrates thinks. He says they are only “addictions, not enjoyment”(p.50), but I can’t imagine my mind not working.
Socrates says: “you don’t have to do anything except to stop seeing the world from the viewpoint of your own personal cravings. Loosen up! When you lose your mind, you’ll come to your senses!”(p.65). I agree with the first part of this sentence, but it is more difficult to understand the second one. Let’s go to think about what you have to do to “lose your mind” according to Socrates. First you have to understand that “you are a prisoner of your own illusions”(p.50)(and on p.53: “realize that you’re in prison-then we can plot your escape”) and you have to realize that they are independent from you, like a “wild horse”. Only “when you know the horse is wild, you can deal with it appropriately”(p.66).
Until here I agree with him.
The second step is to understand the source of thoughts, “how they arise in the first place”(p.72). On p. 73: “when you understand the source clearly, you’ll see that the ripples of your mind have nothing to do with you”. To really understand what Socrates means and to agree with him, I need to make a distinction between the simply wandering of mind and the prejudices that mind grows from society. Socrates suggests: “just go for the ride freely, no matter what happens”(p.51) and “let go of your thoughts to see through your mind!”(p.74). This is the only way to really enjoy every single moment of your life.
The only thing I don’t understand is that Socrates seems to want stop at all the wandering of the mind: I can’t figure out how to do it. So I’m looking forward to start the training about meditation with Dan.
1)In these three quotes, they show how the brain and the mind is different. The brain move my hands, my legs, and my heart but according what Socrates said, the brain just do these things. The brain is just parts of the body. Also according Socrates, we don't use the brain when we feel. On the other had, the mind, it is more thinkable parts. When we feel emotion like anger, fear, happiness and so on, it's mean our mind is working. That is what Socrates said “Neither your disappointment nor your anger was caused by the brain.” These feeling is came from the mind. Also he said “The brain is real; the mind isn't.” It is the same. The brain is moving our body and it is visible action, but the mind is what we think and what we feel so it is invisible. That is why he said that. And Socrates said “My mind is like a pond without a ripples.” That mean his mind is so quiet and he is adamant so he doesn't upset what will happen and also it mean he divide his mind from his brain completely.
At first, I can't understand Socrates's idea that the brain and the mind is different because when I think and feel something, I thought I use my brain. I thought I can feel because of the brain. However, after read these lines many times, my opinion changed. Now I think as Socrates said, when I feel emotions I just use my mind because when I feel, I don't think and I just feel. I think it is the reason why we say that we feel things with our heart.
My mind is always like Dan's. I often feel anger or sadness and my mind is shaken by many things around me so I can't steady my mind like Socrates. And I think I use my mind and my brain on equal but I feel I use my mind more than my brain. Of course I use my brain to move my body but I think it is a automatically moving. However when I use my mind, every time I feel something and I can recognize what I feel so I conceive that I use my mind more than my brain. And I think that is why just silly things upset us so often and so serious.
2) On p. 51, Socrates says, "Your mind is your predicament. It wants to be free of change, free of pain, free of obligations of life and death. But change is a law, and no amount of pretending will alter that reality." On p. 82, Socrates says, "The body is Consciousness; never born; never dies; only changes. The mind...is all that ends at death. And who needs it?" What is Socrates talking about in these two quotes, and how do they relate to the themes and ideas in the novel? Can you think of a situation in your life when your mind was your predicament? Please explain it in detail. How do most people in the world view death? How is the popular view of death different than Socrates' view?
Socrates has meant that Dan’s mind has been filled up with a lot of unnecessary thoughts and predicaments. His mind wants to freely of any kind of responsibility. You cannot do that. All of us are responsible about all of our decisions and actions. Those actions or decisions become in changes. Changes are inevitable, you can not avoid it. All around us in this world or even the universe is constantly changing. Let’s see the example that Socrates gave to Dan about the body. Once a time, we were babies, after children after those teenagers, next adults, will get old and finally die. We cannot fight against that. It is a human nature. It is like a circle and it’s not bad. The resolution: we have to enjoy every moment in our life such as if it was the last. The life we are living is unique and time goes fast, to waste it. When we die, we do not need all those material things like money, cars that we used to use when we were alive, neither those predicaments that our minds have.
All those statements are related because; Socrates wants to teach Dan how to free his mind of those predicaments. To do that Dan must change. He has to question his life; then he has to reset his mind. The best way to do it is Meditation. The meditation is the mainly weapon of a warrior. Like a ninja, he has to use it to cut all those knots that tie his predicaments. Once he had done that, he will find peace, harmony, serenity. That will help him to be more consciousness about his life.
A few years ago, I used to work for a hardware retail store. In 2005, I quitted and started to work with my brother in law and his brother. It was a big change because I used to work with computer, network, devices, supporting and I had to learn how to make business. I started to feel that I was not important, my comments were not taken into consideration, and my job was not good. All these thoughts made me feel unhappy and my mood change. Some days I went home I was arguing with my wife and that made feel her bad and also in my mom’s house. I started to blame my brother in law and his brother. But one day I said myself, Stop. If you continue doing that you are going to get sick and both of them will continue their life. I found a solution, a reasonable solution and I thin the best: talk. I had to express my views, hear and be heard. After that, all my issues were going well, at work and in my life. I was taking all with patience, prioritizing and self-controlling.
How do must people in the world view death? I think most of the people in the world view death as a sadness event in their life. People feel sad because they loosed someone that they used to love. But Socrates view is related with change. This change could be good or not. It only depends on the person. The decisions or actions that the person takes will affect positively or not his future. Changes are inevitable and humans react against them. So, humans do not want that their life styles be modified. Then, changes must be step by step and not as quick as seem rude.
I think Socrates use these quotes want to tell Dan that mind can’t change anything even make you confused and mind is not real exist. The meaning of "The brain is real; the mind isn't" is that brain is real exist and there are many functions of brain such as control our body and so on even we can touch it. But mind is not real exist. We can’t touch them and we just imagine them. The meaning of "Neither your disappointment nor your anger was caused by the rain" is that the mind can’t change everything. You don’t like rain, so the rain is disappear. It is impossible. There are many thing can’t change for your mind. The meaning of "My mind is like a pond without ripples" is that Socrates suggests that we should make our mind calm and don’t think some unnecessary things all the time. So Socrates says they are different. Socrates’s meaning is that if you think many things again and again, you just bother by yourself and this action is nothing.
I agree that they are different. Because I think brain is exist and brain can do many things. Obviously, mind is not stand for brain. Maybe you don’t like something, but your mind can’t change them. Many things exist don’t due to your mind. I think I also like Dan, because I spend time to think something and I can’t control my mind. My mind works by itself. When I rest or nothing to do, my mind will work. It’s very natural. Even sometimes I think some questions which there are not answers. Now I understand this action is not necessary, but sometimes I can’t control them. Maybe I should use brain to think and to find out the true. Don’t spend more time to think pass time or future, because we just can master now. Don’t disappointment or anger when you find something different from your mind. If you can’t change something, you have to change yourself and try to accept them. Mind is unnecessary, just you bother yourself.
1- The 3 quotes are related in the definition or the difference between the brain and the mind. As secretes meant in all these three quotes is the brain is real and responsible about our body and movement, remembering phone numbers and all the important things in our life. Nevertheless the mind is not real and it contain all the thought that it is created by the moment or our emotions and feelings.
I don’t think they are different because every thing we do in our life is a normal translation to what we need wither it is a phone number or crying.
Obviously every move or thought we do in our daily life it is our responsibility wither it is wrong or right, If we done something wrong and that hurt someone do you think he will forgive you if you told him that my mind isn’t real and I’m not responsible of any thing that comes from it !!! Absolutely he will thing you are a crazy person and you need a serious help. Besides this is the human nature we cant just ignore what my mind demanding me to do; of course if it is in my favor I won’t just portend it is nothing.
In my daily life I go for the thing that I see from my point of view is right. I can’t analyze every thing pop in to my mind(brain) every time because if I did that I’m going to take a whole hour just to think if I have to smile to my friend that setting next to me in the class or that is just wasting for my time and my energy to move my muscle !! With all my respect but it sounds crazy to think about every move or thought we could die and we have not decided yet if we should tell our moms and dad’s that we love theme and appestat them if we kept thinking if it is worth it or not. Life is simple and spread the happiness around us without thinking. Without a doubt our mind(brain) has a lot of good thoughts as well as the bad thoughts and they are all real but as I said earlier that we have to do what we I believe in. we might make a mistakes and a lot of them in our life but at least when you hurt someone and you go to apologize to him; he would forgive you because you are responsible about your behavior and you admit that u made a mistake but imagine if you said my mind isn’t responsible or real !!!!
Q.1
These quotes explain the difference of mind between Socrates and Dan; ordinary people.
And, the explanation of difference between brain and mind means that the action of brain can be controlled, but the action of mind can not be controlled. We can choose the information which we put into brain and what to think and act. But, we can not choose the emotion which we feel. So, emotions sometimes bother us. And, Dan was irritated with rain on mountain, because his mind was so infant and noisy. This means that our emotions are controlled by mind. So, if we want to control our emotions, we should train our mind. In the novel, that training is meditation.
I agreed that brain and mind are different. That is because there are too many things in our life which cannot be explained by brain. For example, when I become to like a person, I can not understand why I become to like that person. And, if I become to like a food, I can not explain why I like it. I can say just it is delicious. Why I feel delicious when I eat that food? I can not explain. And, our favorite people and foods are different each other, though our body system and brain are almost same. So, I think mind exists exactly.
In my daily life, I use both of them. As I explained earlier, when I like or dislike something or someone, maybe I use my mind. But, when I decide or plan, I use my brain. For example, if I become to like a girl, I can not control whether I like her or not. But, I can control whether I approach her or not. I can say the same thing when I like foods.
And, my mind has many waves, that is to say more like Dan’s. That is because I sometimes feel wrong emotions. That means that I can not see the truth like Socrates. For example, when I did not get good grade at a practice examination, I felt everything was going to be bad. But, the grade of practice examination is really small stuff if I see that from the long-term view. So, my mind tends to be shook by such a small things yet.
In these 3 quotations, they all say that mind is different from brain. Mind is a slippery term and uncontrolled, but it controls people. On the other hand, brain is real enough to direct body, store information and play with information. Besides, brain can be tool to help mind controls us. He didn’t know that, because Dan thought that when he was thinking something and reacting, his mood came from the actual events, but that is untrue, in fact, his mood came from his mind. In according to Socrates, Dan and we can’t control our mind, so we also wouldn’t be able to control our feeling. But as Socrates said to Dan, “When you know the horse is wild, you can deal with it appropriately.”, if Dan understand that brain is different from mind, he can deal with his feeling and mood appropriately as Socrates and Joy. They, especially in Socrates, can control their mind as no ripples that mean some happening to mind by getting accustomed to it.
I agree with this way of thinking up to a point, but I think we can’t always act as if there are no ripples by getting used. In my opinion, if we got used to something, we sometimes can’t react calmly. What will you do when you fall dawn? Most of us will feel sad or unpleasant at once, if you are used to fall dawn and got injured. This is an extreme example, but as this case, we can’t always react calmly thorough understanding that mind is uncontrolled.
In my daily life, I have a lot of ripples in fact. The something irregular makes me upset as easily as Dan. Because I haven’t known that brain and mind are not the same since I read this book I didn’t think something deeply and reacted instantly. When I was a high school student, I belonged to the dance club. As my school festival is close at hand, I can’t act my role completely and was so worried about that. One day, alumnus advised me to how to act more real, but their advices were difference each other, so I was very upset. I think this case is similar to Dan’s one. Although I know advice is respectively useful through the past experience, I reacted carelessly and I wasn’t able to control my feeling with my brain tool. It is not easy to do as Socrates said, but if Socrates says true thing, I want to try to understand their difference and react appropriately.
No.1
these 3 quotes related to each other and our real life so much.
a. "The brain is real; the mind isn't" (p. 52). => our brain is real ,and it is a organ which help us to think,ponder ,realize, command other organ and so on . every brain of people has a same physiologicay function.
meanwhile , the mind are thinking,pondering ,realizing...it means the brain makes the mind.
we can touch the brain, bu twe can't touch the mind because the mind is intangible, for that reason, we can change our mind .
but when a person was born , he was forced to think , ponder , realize everything tendency to a true idea which his society suggested, put forward...
and he didn't think about these suggestion seriously although his brain can.
for example:b. "Neither your disappointment nor your anger was caused by the rain" (p. 55).
he always think that the rain relate the sorrow , disappointment , anger.because his society taught him like that .
however, sometimes which our society taught us are not true and they become the disillusioning experiences.
We make our life bored , and there are not any change because all of us follow to a path which last generation suggest , our life is like a copy. There are not something which are different.
i agree that they are different because Socrat almost understand himself , what does he want ? he also understands his life clearly . meanwhile , Dan feels his life illusively,not clearly . That's why he always follows, obeys other people like a machine.
In my real life , also i am like Dan , I depend on my environment very much . My society controls me ,and they also control my thinking, ponderng , realizing ...Nevertheless , I occasionally try to control myself instead of obeying them . ex: I didn’t agree with my government , my university , and i gave my comment .
or i think about my life , and others . Everybody was born , and everybody must kick the basket . it is a rule .so to think ,uor life will become no meaning if we don't do different something , so i choose that after i finish my university , i will do charity .
it means my mind has ripples.
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